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| Truck Reviews (15215 Posts)
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Kids and the Internet
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On 9/2/2005 Sister Mary
wrote in from
United States
(207.200.nnn.nnn)
Like monkeys hurling poop, these two or three kids with limited reading comprehension skills seem great at talking smack! Hey, that's the internet and the best part of NCDSA!
They're so wrapped up in being a smartass that they don't even know what they're saying... so let's look inside the mind of someone with her 14 year old nose up Jack's ass:
"I looked closely at Jacks trucks, and they defiantly do what they say they do."
--How cool that you can tell they work by looking at them! Was it in person, or just the photos posted here? Oh, wait, maybe you're not so sure about what you're even saying:
"Mabye the fact that they do add more traction, or the fact that Kelli felt more comfortable because she had the illusion of more traction she was able to charge harder? who know(s),"
--Jeepers, that's EXACTLY what GeezerX and Chapstick have been saying all along! At least it sunk into your trendy little head, somehow! Let's bang it into you one more time: these trucks work better than anything ever made, or they don't, but the ONE WAY to know is to ride them on a board the rider already has, knows and has changed only one thing on (that would be the truck(s) for you dimwitted types) and rides it on a course they already know. If you get on Jack Smith's board, and his setup happens to be as intellectual and effective as his trucks might be, then MAYBE, just maybe his setup using regular Radikals would ALSO be better than anything you've ever ridden.
We are all hoping these trucks are the best thing ever, but anyone crying like a baby that people seeking better understanding of if and how they work should either STFU or learn to read.
I'd tell you more, but my Mom says I have to get ready for school. Long live 15 year-olds and you guys all suck if you pick on me now.
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CHAPUT
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On 9/2/2005 WAX
wrote in from
United States
(67.176.nnn.nnn)
WOW...Chris has stooped to calling a Girls names...way to market Pink eh?...Mabye it was the wheels that made her 3 seconds faster...wait, they werent Godess of Speed wheels, so it probably wasnt that....
I looked closely at Jacks trucks, and they defiantly do what they say they do. Mabye the fact that they do add more traction, or the fact that Kelli felt more comfortable because she had the illusion of more traction she was able to charge harder? who know, but please stop calling Girls names just because someones technology is working and you had no part in it....
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Get over yourself
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On 9/1/2005
AP
wrote in from
United States
(66.214.nnn.nnn)
Chris, watching to much TV? Back hurt for typing? I too have no Idea what you even mean by that. Linsey who? Your a Mean Girl? Your just being rude. Get over yourself. Call Jack, See if you can get a truck and go test it out. Now that reality. Does acting like a know-it-all get you anywhere? I doudt it. Thanks for your patience.
Keli you rule. Im so Proud to go skate with you Little Lady. You've got Skillz.
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Lindsay Lohan?!?!?
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On 9/1/2005
Keli
wrote in from
United States
(64.166.nnn.nnn)
jeez chris. how do you know so much about lindsey lohan? i've never seen either of those movies you refer to. I'm really not this mean to people. just you. you just piss me off, i don't know why, but you must be special. yay for chris. Don't take your distress out on AP, he's cool, he just skates, not much BS outta him, he's my awesome skater brother, back off.
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Psh, lame
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On 9/1/2005
Keli
wrote in from
United States
(64.166.nnn.nnn)
Ok Chris. Like whatever, I'll play the "i'm an immature teenage girl" card, just because thats what you want, and i know it's going through your head. Go for it, get a truck, spend a billion hours huddled in your little corner trying to prove people wrong. what you do in your spare time, oh man i could care less. Was this gas thing a metaphor? i must have missed something. Were you just talking for the sake of talking again? This page is ridiculous, why do i let myself get sucked into this crap. I'm wayyyyyy wayyyyy over aruging with you, you're just so close minded i'm not getting anywhere. it's like 4 30 in the afternoon, it's sunny, i'm going skating. you guys argue all you want. See you at the worlds and then we'll see who's talking. Maybe I'll go make some new wheels that take 6 seconds of your time so you can tell me more scientific stuff that i could care less about. yay, sounds fun. I think i'll color the wheels purple, purple is a good color, not as cool as green though.
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Jeez AP
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On 9/1/2005
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
United States
(66.116.nnn.nnn)
Now I get it AP. Keli is the new Lindsay Lohan, I'm the new Mean Girl, and Herbie the Love Truck wins the big race in the end. Brought to you by reality televsion. Thanks for your insight on truck design.
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Jeez
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On 9/1/2005
AP
wrote in from
United States
(207.114.nnn.nnn)
Now be a smart ass to a 15 year old, Get some class. I say talk Jack and get one. We are over it, I mean you.
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Regular vs Premium
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On 9/1/2005
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
United States
(66.116.nnn.nnn)
I was wondering when the old "beating up on a 15 year old girl" card was going to be played.
I have regular gas in my VW and premium in my Porsche. My Porsche runs circles around my VW. Therefore premium gas is faster than regular.
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Traction Lab
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On 9/1/2005
Beaver
wrote in from
United States
(24.194.nnn.nnn)
toddc and Chris both have a point.....in order to show how effective the truck is, use only one variable....as you've have probly learned in science class.
i'm not saying it doesn't work (can't wait to see one in person ::drool::) i'm just saying mount it on the same board you had earlier and run it and then setup the board with your old rear truck and look at the differences
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traction lab
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On 9/1/2005 toddc
wrote in from
United States
(198.39.nnn.nnn)
Chris has every right to question the effectiveness of this truck. The analysis he is talking about has probably already been conducted to a degree by a Jack and is most likely an ongoing process. He isn't bringing it down, he's asking why it works while trying to eliminate other influences. It's valid. I think it is reductionist analysis. Regarding age, it is irrelevant, if you are posting in public, anyone can argue with you - that's life, even for 15 year olds.
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bruised oranges and rotton apples
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On 9/1/2005
Tom M.
wrote in from
United States
(164.227.nnn.nnn)
Like, WHATEVER...
\ /
\ /\ /
\/ \/
<g>
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bruised oranges and rotton apples
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On 8/31/2005
Keli
wrote in from
United States
(64.166.nnn.nnn)
Chris, are you done talking yet?
Why are you so intent to prove this truck wrong? Are you angry you didn't think of it first? Do you have nothing else to do? Personally, I could care less about the "scientific" crap that goes with it. As long as i'm fast, and I can win, who cares. People like you turn skateboarding, which is supposed to be a fun sport, that keeps you young, makes you happy, gets you together with other skaters for a fun time, you've made it into some scientific blah blah blah,
trying to prove yourself right and everyone else wrong instead of getting off the computer and skating. Do you enjoy arguing with a 15 year old girl? Is it fun to you? If you knew 15 year old girls you would be smart enough to know, 15 year old girls, we're never wrong. We're always right, you're always wrong, you'll never win an arguement with us and theres nothin you can do about it. thats just the way we teenagers work. It's not fun for me to argue, i'd rather go skate or surf or play water polo or something. name a time and a place and we can carry on this little conversation when I can pencil you in. I'm over it.
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Apples and Oranges
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On 8/31/2005
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
United States
(66.116.nnn.nnn)
Yes Keli, you have to wonder what makes it work. And the reason that you have to wonder is because nothing has been proved. We were talking about a REAR TRUCK design that is intended to provide more traction, and you are talking about AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT BOARD SETUP that allows you to navigate 6 foot cones faster.
Maybe YOU think it's the rear truck, and only the rear truck, and that nothing else is contributing to your success, but from a purely scintific perspective, that is a completely unreasonable conclusion. Furthermore, the fact that you can run tight cones on a board with a 3" longer wheelbase tells me that it CAN'T be explained by a rear truck alone. Traction is not needed in TS as much as it is in Hybrid and GS. There are other contributing factors. Period.
This is not to say that the rear truck doesn't work well. I've never said that. You seem to be defending something that I've never attacked. What I am questioning is your methodoly and your conclusion based on your experiment. It's not personal. It's just not scientifically sound.
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trucks
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On 8/30/2005
Keli
wrote in from
United States
(64.166.nnn.nnn)
Dearest Chris,
When the board with the truck on it has a wheelbase 3 inches longer than the other board and it makes it through a course of six foot cones you have to wonder whats making it work.
besides Chris, you have a job i presume. and a life, and skating. so why is it that your still here arguing about something you've never tried. you know the old saying, don't knock it till you've tried it.
i'm trying my best to be polite, but i think i've had enough so you get to hear what the rest of us are thinking while we listen to you go on and on and on.
have a nice day
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It had to be the trucks
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On 8/30/2005
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
United States
(66.116.nnn.nnn)
Keli, I'm glad that you were able to improve your time by 3 seconds and that you are convinced IT works. My question to you is, what makes you think that it was an innovative back truck that was responsible for the improved time? The board was different, the front truck, the bearings, the wheels, the bushings, the risers - EVERYTHING was different. Isn't it possible that the whole board is a finely tuned setup?
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Unemployed
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On 8/30/2005
Jimz
wrote in from
Canada
(24.67.nnn.nnn)
Congratulations Jack! Unemployed is where it's at! I'm aspiring to be the same once again.
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innovation
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On 8/29/2005
Keli
wrote in from
United States
(64.166.nnn.nnn)
i rode jack's board with the truck on it.
it worked.
it took 3 seconds off my time.
i cleared the course with that truck and a board a couple inches longer than the boardi used when i did the same course and hit 10 cones.
i'm convinced, it works.
go skate.
you all argue more than the 15 year old girls i go to school with.
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Permission
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On 8/29/2005 Jack
wrote in from
United States
(207.114.nnn.nnn)
Allan,
What the hell are you talking about?
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real innovation?
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On 8/28/2005 Alan Sidlo
wrote in from
United States
(24.148.nnn.nnn)
i was wondering what you thought of getting stepped on like that. just was hoping that these guys were working with your permission but now i see it wasn't the case. i've witnessed what our revered friend has done to others in this sport too bad you have to be another victim of this kind of business. we don't have to blame the that chinese for stealing our products...
...if there was any reason that products with real innovation isn't on the market it's because of this friends like these. guess the high price we pay is the the trust that we lose along the way.
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Pioneers
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On 8/28/2005
Jack
wrote in from
United States
(66.82.nnn.nnn)
Mark, so that's what that stinging sensation was?
I just want everyone to know that when I first started fooilng around with this suspension thing, I called Mark and let him know what I was up to.
He has been supportive since the beginning.
Where it goes from here, I have no idea. Come Wednesday, I'm unemployed.
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pioneers
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On 8/28/2005
mark mcree
wrote in from
United States
(69.69.nnn.nnn)
Hey Jack, Pioneers always seem to get shot in the back. That's the price pioneers pay. My wounds have healed. Thick skin helps.
I'm on to other aspects of this sport. Good luck.
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Torsion bar trucks
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On 8/26/2005 EBasil
wrote in from
United States
(63.206.nnn.nnn)
Well, I think the Traction Lab trucks look great! Obviously the product of some hard-thinking about old issues and some dedicated fabricators. I don't know whether or how they work, but it's certainly interesting to see them and the commentary.
How does the Traction Lab design relate to the independent-suspension trucks the Fat City Racing guys were using a few years back? I think I remember Bob Turner describing them as using a hex rod for torsion springs, but I've never seen one, so I don't know if they're at all similar.
Finally, in the diagrams with the purple wheels, shouldn't the urethane of the wheel be shown in deformation, like we know wheels will "try to do" when under a lateral load? If it's correct that wheels will deform to conform under such pressure, I'd expect that some wheels might resolve some of that contact patch issue, just by their design (aside from the trucks).
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Settle What?
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On 8/26/2005
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
United States
(66.116.nnn.nnn)
"They say it works. Doesn't that settle it?"
Settle what? I don't think that anyone here has said that it doesn't work, so I'm not quite sure what there is that needs to be "settled".
What I want to know, is if there is an identical truck that has swingarms that don't move. Perhaps there is a simple adjustment to the "swinging" truck, or a "near" identical hanger can be found in the form of a "heavier than stock" Radikal. If so, Blind A-B testing can be done on a single setup, with only the rear hanger being swapped out or adjusted. This would be one way of letting people feel the difference that only the independent suspension could be making.
When I first tried Radikals, I liked them. Why I liked them is hard to say. Why is it hard to say? Because the height, the weight, the width, the wheelbase, the geometry, the risers, the pivot bearing, the cushion bearing, the cushion seats, the cushions, the different durometers of top and bottom cushions, the washers (or absence thereof), the kingpins, the axle offset and the axles themselves were ALL TOTALLY DIFFERENT from what I had been riding. The hole pattern for mounting hardware was about the only thing that was the same. When 15 things change, and there is an improvement in performance, one is left to THEORIZE about which change (or changes) contribute to the overall performance. Some people don't care why a Radikal works, they just buy them. I care about what works and why. And I'm not the only one.
I made some trucks with 2 changes to an existing prototype. I changed the pivot bushion to a more precise one, and I put spherical bearings in the cushion seats. The boarding handled great, with one notable exception. When there was a smaller load on the deck, like when you are pushing and only have one foot on the deck, the trucks seemed to "stick" and could steer off to one side. This is completely unnacceptable in racing, as your board could wander into another's lane at the start, causing you to slow down and "stomp" the deck into the other direction. I lubed the spherical bearings, but it still seemed too stiff. I thought that the slip-fit of the (nylon) bearing was preventing it from turning, so I eased the fit up a bit. Same problem. I sourced steel bearings and tried them, only to find that these didn't work any better.
The problem was, the newer pivot bushings had too small of an ID, and was preventing the truck from turning while unloaded. They seemed to turm find by hand and when fully loaded, but not with a partial load. Had I changed only ONE thing at a time, I would have never suspected the spherical bearing, I wouldn't have wasted all of the time and money to solve a problem that didn't exist.
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but mommy, the color wheel says this mixes to brown
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On 8/26/2005
sc
wrote in from
United States
(68.4.nnn.nnn)
The guys who are riding it say it works. Doesn't that settle it?
Old art school joke: If Seurat's theory had been good, his paintings would have been bad.
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No hate for traction lab
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On 8/26/2005 GN
wrote in from
United States
(67.189.nnn.nnn)
The only thing I question is why it works. The
weight shift, $5 bill test does not make sense to
me. I would say that it is the independent
suspension keeping the wheels in better contact
with the road when going over bumps. This is
why cars have springs. The springs are not there
to control weight shift.
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