Jason Mitchell, Seismic Nationals 2007, Hybrid Slalom.  Photo by Greg Fadell Northern California Downhill Skateboarding Association
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Freecarving (255 Posts)
Topic Info
Sidewinders and freecarving
On 10/6/2014 PSR wrote in from United States  (65.96.nnn.nnn)

So, after toying with these critters for the summer, I've come to these conclusions in the limits of the truck's performance; Best for top-mounts with camber and concave, but set-up with >5* wedging up front, and a -5* wedge at the rear. Use the grip you want, in terms of wheel durometer, but wider is better with these trucks in the wheel's sizing. Beware of offset wheel shapes in terms of wheel-bite, as these trucks lean deeply. Pick your bushings with care, as the kingpins are stupid-short, and the lower bushing (one closest to the baseplate, be it Top or Bottom truck-set) will be the lean-and-wobble limiting factor. Don't use conical bushing on the lower placement unless you're dodging stuff slalom-style at slow speeds. Now, if you've gotten creative, and put these on a drop-thru deck, be very aware of wheel-bite in deep turns. Don't expect to bomb hills at usual speeds, but instead use your lowered center-of-gravity to push the lean into quicker slides that check your speed in frenzied little slips-of-traction. I think this is key though, as it allows for longer turns, made deeply, with the 'breaking' of traction being only a small section of the arc of a turn, albeit at times when you Thought you had traction... These 'mini-slides' do a neat thing in burning off speed. The keep you turning, instead of dropping into a full Coleman or Bertleman, so you can react quicker in poise, and get back to flowing turns. This probably isn't quicker down a steep slope than tucking+drifting, but it does feel a good bit smoother overall. BTW, don't go pushing Sidewinders too fast. They can wobble unexpectedly, and -from either pivot section. 30+ is about the limit on these, even with stepped-barrel Venoms, wedging, and on a drop-thru. Side-deflection chatter, also due to the multi-pivot design is sometimes a 'tosser' in slides, so be aware of the roughness of road you are on. I like the concept of the Sidewinder, and it works, within it's limits. What I'd love to see is refinement of the concept, possibly using contrasting geometries or truck builds from the lower to upper pivotal sections. That, of course, will take more Patent Lawyers...

 
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Sidewinder/drop-thru deck
On 9/21/2014 PSR wrote in from United States  (65.96.nnn.nnn)

My old friend, C. Nelson, took a little leap of faith this summer, and after a few e-mails and phone conversations, went about ordering up a drop-thru, using Sidewinders. The combo ended up being a Never-Summer, with two pair of Khiro Rail-Risers, Gullwing Sidewinders with old-issue Stimulators at the baseplates, and Khiro bushings otherwise(which, as always, deliver!), and 3DM Black-Ops Avilas.
Now, the wheels and bushings are still a concern of mine, as Nelson got lucky with having the Aggro Stims still, and luckier yet that HUGE Avilas cleared the deck cut-outs during tight corners!
With the bushings, I had noticed how 'flat+dead', ala roadkill-lively Venom bushings are compared with the nice rebound Stims have, so I had noted Jim-Z's as a better choice than Vemons for return-to-center feel. They, too, lack any 'snap' back to center, making pumping turns a chore at times. [Don't get me wrong here; the stability is wonderful, especially with the double-knuckle design of the Sidewinder, but really, LESS bounce than my worn-out 1976 vintage ACS Rubber bushings? REALLY?! How about a urethane that has some elasticity, please!!]
Oh, and the Avilas rock, despite being big enough to accidentally step on mid-stride. I loved the speed, smoothness, and grip. To my surprise, the tight-turning trucks, low-center-of-gravity deck, and FAT wheels made drifting slides very predictable. However, for slides, I might opt for a smaller wheel like the Biggie Hawgs, just so I don't keep kicking them as I roll.

 
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Sidewinder, drop thru
On 5/9/2014 PSR wrote in from United States  (65.96.nnn.nnn)

I put Gullwing sidewinders into a Globe 12 ply 50" drop-thru deck this last fall, and found it to be utterly useless; wobbly at anything like speed, and still very cumbersome at the low-end. It did slide well, but not, um, with predictability, preferring to 'jump' from carve to slide without MY input. I thought it through, and realized that Gullwing knew nothing of Tracker's Stimulator bushings of 15+ years ago, nor of wedging, or even the geometry needed to promote lower hanger steering over lower hanger steering (tough to watch for, but calculable, as angles can be predicted). My solution, which, btw, works on 'top mount', or 'drop thru' decks, is to simply install something along the lines of the Original Stims (Venom,Fatties,Bear) on the bottom of the lower hanger, and then also put taller, softer, versions of a 'barrel' bushing in the lower slot if the upper hanger. IF you wedge these trucks,keep in mind that it's not a 'linear' connection. Wedges will help, but also be less predictable, as you are adjusting 4, not 2, elastomer settings and therefore 2 radian angles, not just 1 along the way. Wobbles may be an issue until you figure out whether you use lower or upper body dynamics more prominently in your turning. Oh, and if you wedge a drop-thru, use Khiro Rails. These can allow you to put a wedge between the baseplate and deck on top of the deck, but in REVERSE of how the wedges would be on a top-mount (normal) board. Be aware that this will often mean a higher rear than front, and watch for wheel rub at the front truck. Sidewinders on a dropped-thru deck are awesome, carveable, slideable, and even usable up to the mid 40's, but are, in drop-thru, finally push-bikepath-urban-skoggin usable, with a reserve of being 'steep-pitch' bombable for carve-slider descenders who use narrow or off-pitch roadways.

 
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Carveboard
On 8/25/2012 Mr. Grinch wrote in from United States  (166.147.nnn.nnn)

PSR, I have to disagree about carveboards needing the ability for higher speed. Not what the company and their products are about. I'm not a speed demon, I like the carve. I once pumped a Pumpkin up the hill in GGP where the guys were practicing slalom. I'm a surfer, so speed generation via environment and weight displacement is crucial. For me, that is what carving is about.

Not to say carving to scrub speed is bad. Not at all. Nor is speed in general. I just don't know if rubber has the characteristics that are amenable to racing on skateboards. Perhaps the right compound hasn't been found? Tubeless (the weight of a carveboard wheel is obscene, the trucks a bit too, but if tubeless tires were used.....)?

Just seems to me taking the carve out of the carveboard isn't right.

:)

No ill meant, just my penny thought.

 
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Airline
On 4/18/2009 Hamal wrote in from Singapore  (203.92.nnn.nnn)

Hello. When we lose one we love, our bitterest tears are called forth by the memory of hours when we loved not enough.
I am from Liberia and learning to read in English, give true I wrote the following sentence: "Find best deals on flight tickets, hotel bookings, honeymoon holiday packages, bus and train railway business class airline night flight."

Best regards :(, Hamal.

 
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B-Side Video
On 12/6/2008 ONE-EYE wrote in from United States  (75.4.nnn.nnn)

Backside of GMR video, watch in higher quality:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=je9uWyxeF14

 
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Derek
On 9/22/2007 Derek wrote in from United States  (66.204.nnn.nnn)

243dasda32
[url= http://243dasda32.com ]243dasda32' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>Click here for link

 
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Drop deck
On 7/13/2007 Ronald wrote in from United States  (69.105.nnn.nnn)

thanks alot but ive ben reviewing things over and for some reason the landyatchz spud caught my eye, so yea if you have review on it and wat type of specs are best on it

 
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Dropped Decks
On 7/3/2007 PSR wrote in from United States  (75.69.nnn.nnn)

Hmm, forgot to note one other possible deck company; Subsonic. Scott makes great decks with awesome contouring and graceful shapes. Worth looking at Twice before shopping any further....

 
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Chicago longboards
On 7/3/2007 PSR wrote in from United States  (75.69.nnn.nnn)

If you can afford them, Yes! Chicago's are great decks. I got my hands (unfortunately, not my feet!) on one at the Ascutney race. It's frippin' Gorgeous! Granted, for the Dinero, Landyatchz still is hard to beat, and Kebbek or Rayne should be given due consideration, but I Like the ChicagoLongboard stuff a lot. Best thing, is that wood types/quantities/looks are selectable, plus no warpage! That's not easy to do with low-volume decks with many bends, and wood choices involved. Btw, decent, but not too-deep of a concave, probably will be more 'relaxed' feeling than a Landy. So, yeah, they got my vote. :-D

 
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FOUND A GREAT SITE
On 7/2/2007 r0nard wrote in from United States  (69.105.nnn.nnn)

Hey guys sry if i hadnt replyd in so long. ive ben in newyork for a couple months while i was up there my fider flex deck was ran over, so that was a big bummer. well for a question ok my friend in new york told me of this great site (http://www.chicagolongboards.com/models_options.htm) so i checked it out and i found amazing drop decks and other great long board decks that they created. so i was wondering do u guys think i should buy a drop deck from here?

 
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Rubber
On 6/23/2007 PSR wrote in from United States  (75.69.nnn.nnn)

P Ashley, it's those Bazookas that're the rubber-but-replaceable-tire wheel I was trying to remember.. Thanks on that.

One of the Slalomers here in New England brought his Carveboard along for giggles (not to race on, just cruisin'), and it was cool watching that thing just hunker down and Lean into a carve. I just wish the springs (and maybe steering angles) were more easily adjusted to suit higher speeds. Still, it's pretty manuverable, even predictable, once it's rolling along.

HC, that may be the benchmark 'target' board you'd want to surpass when you go make a better freecarver. Same traction, more speed, truck stiffness/turn rate adjustment, lighter, and less costly.

 
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bazookaz and big axles
On 6/23/2007 p ashley wrote in from United States  (75.69.nnn.nnn)

The shorter rubber tierney can stay in one lane, even on steep runs. The rear slides but still feels carvy because the slide is gentle, controllable and long. the tboard will go 30 mph but you'll want a safe run out or room to carve off speed. the tboard is a bit more complicated to control than a 4 wheel board, but a very fun true alternative with a rewarding learning curve. I used both my short rubber tboard and my loaded vanguard gumballs on a pretty steep run this AM. The vanguard could just keep traction with a quite loose front truck and very gentle rear foot weighting and edge control. I don't much like sliding the gumballs because they make an annoying buzz and greatly chop speed. The rubber tboard goes in and out of slide much more smoothly.

Looks like if you want rubber nowadays you need to go with big axles. Carveboard or perhaps this ground industries board with bazookaz or optional slicks is a good and cheaper alternative? I can't tell if the black bazookas are rubber. I imagine the ride may not be so smooth with the big hubs, but at least the wheel diameter would help.

http://groundindustries.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=GIS&Category_Code=WHEELS

http://groundindustries.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=GIS&Category_Code=DIRTMALL

 
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xt wheels slick
On 6/23/2007 hc wrote in from United States  (71.139.nnn.nnn)

the ones I have are gathering dust,
they are a slow and a stiff ride.
last time I rode them was on a landy DH with exkates.
they still slip on steeper slopes.
I gonna try them out on my sidewinder setup, maybe just two in the rear.

I been wanting to design a setup that can do control slow carves (needs some way to burn off speed) WITHIN the width of a 12 foot lane.

Regular skateboards just can't do that without resorting to check slides or having the rear drift, both sketchy and not 'carvey' at all.

Freebords and Flowlab both seem to have great speed control, but not the ride I am looking for. I don't know if Tierney is a good with speed control, but it just doesn't seem safe, how would you pull a coleman slide?

anyways, the holy grail for me is a setup that is not a slug on mellow hills but can bleed off speed on steeper hills, and can go at least 30mph without getting wobs.

 
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Rubber might meet the road
On 6/22/2007 PSR wrote in from United States  (75.69.nnn.nnn)

P Ashley, those 'Super Slicks' are pretty much the old '8-Ball' I mentioned. Are they for sale still? The date on that webpage wasn't promising....
There was a dirt-board company showing stuff last year that featured replaceable rubber wheels in the 110mm (or so?) size. These are in concept very similar to the descent wheels Summit marketed a few years back, but with plastic cores instead of metal, and at least the rubber is changeable.
Yak, haven't tried them, looks like old Power-Paw cores (or a copy there-of), could be a bit faster ? Having rubber bonded to Aluminum will yield a fairly harsh ride, but will provide a crisp turn response if Power-Paws were any indication.. Of course, once their worn...

There aren't many rubber wheel kits out there, but the dirt-boarding crowd does have a few. Also, Landy's Grizzly truck, and Gullwing's Wide Pro are available in bigger axle diameters, which can allow you to put 10mm bearings (3/8") onto a skateboard with some options (other than springs for a double-kick Dirtboard) in truck steering, so from there, it's a matter of wheel clearance/size. In any case, if you start putting these types of parts together, be sure to ask silly questions, like 'what bearings?', what size bearings', 'how wide are those wheels?','width at the core?', and 'those truck mount how?'. Pick your deck with equal inquisitiveness, with an eye towards what you want the board to do.

 
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rubber wheels
On 6/22/2007 p Ashley wrote in from United States  (143.127.nnn.nnn)

I was looking at http://www.a2xtreme.com/2000/xtwheels.htm Are there other rubber wheels available? The Yak wheels seem to be unpurchasable.

 
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XT/Tierney wheels
On 6/21/2007 PSR wrote in from United States  (75.69.nnn.nnn)

Peter, the XT's I'm familiar with are the tractor-tread 'off road' solid rubber wheels. However, Exate made two reasonable rubber wheels awhile back, the 8-Ball, and Smokebomb, both using the core from the M-80, but with bonded rubber on them. The 8-Ball was rounded in it's surface contact, kinda like a big Rubber version of G+S's old RollerBall wheel of the early 80's, and that wheel would roll o.k., and grip pretty well, but was still slower than a 62mm Krypto rollerskate wheel. The SmokeBomb was grippier, as it had a flatter profile (like an M-80 or Flywheel), and it sticks really well, but is Slow, embarrassingly slow on shallow inclines, but shines in steeps and in the wet.
I haven't even grooved mine, though I might to give them better Rain grip.

Tierney's solid rubber wheels are slow-ish, too, but feel faster (maybe cause there's only two per deck?) than SmokeBombs. I actually like running an Urethane front, and a Rubber rear on Tierney's, giving you some speed, but great grip 'deep' in the turn, plus a little 'damp spot' security, nice in early A.M. runs down Condo-access runs! If I recall correctly, you'd need a 3-1/4" axle sticking out from your hanger (like Indy 129's w/ 215 axles!) to get these on a regular skateboard truck. No, I haven't tried that, yet.

In general, solid rubber wheels roll a bit faster than air-filled ones, but suffer in ride quality. Also, grip isn't really adjustable, as it is with air-pressured tires. IMHO, no one has looked very hard at Air-Filled tires made of Urethane with Rubber bonded in the tread, but it could be the Next Big Leap in all-road and wet speed applications. The cost of development is one obstacle, another is the size of the sales niche, a third is the bond between Plastic and synthetic rubber (though that's getting better from both the Tire world, and from shoes). I was kinda hoping BMW would follow up on their 'cruiser' board with some 'thane+rubber Pirellis filled with Nitrogen at 150 Psi, but, I think the Beemer crowd quit Surfing... :-(


 
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rubber wheels
On 6/21/2007 peter a wrote in from United States  (143.127.nnn.nnn)

How do you like the XT wheels? They look a LOT like tierney board wheels. I would imagine that they are slower than carveboard inflated wheels? On a tboard, the rubber wheels grip a bit better but mostly have much friendlier release characteristics. The Tboard bends the wheels up on angles though and uses the sides, so this may not be a straight comparison to wheels kept flat by use of a normal skate truck, in which case they may continue to have better grip than urethane.

 
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carveboard
On 6/20/2007 hc wrote in from United States  (71.139.nnn.nnn)

I been on it couple of times, its a fun ride, kinda want to own one.

the wheels are heavy, slow to accelerate,
don't go too fast, it will wob.

my favorite deep lean board is my sidewinder setup.
have avalons on there, need more grip.
i have some xt rubber wheels lying around

 
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carveboard grip
On 6/20/2007 P Ashley wrote in from United States  (143.127.nnn.nnn)

Looking at some videos, I'd estimate folks are getting about a 45 degree lean angle = ~1g lateral. Looks like there is also slip/drag at this point put it seems significantly better grip than urethane judging from video alone. And as you say rubber usually has more forgiving slip character.

 
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Carveboard
On 6/19/2007 PSR wrote in from United States  (75.69.nnn.nnn)

Peter, the speed of Carveboards varies quite a bit, due to tire pressure. This also affects grip. Go softer in pressure, and you'll go slower, grip better (as a rule-of-thumb; some exceptions apply, such as parking-garage cement, where the best grip is a fairly high PSi #). They're slower by a good deal than most 65mm + sized 'soft' (under 90A) urethane wheels. But, (except maybe Emotions) uretahane skateboard wheels won't provide predictable grip on wet tarmac, nor go cruise comforatbly over a packed-down dirt road, or cruise serenely over World-Class golfing greens (kidding, sort of) at night. The grip the big ol' rubber wheels yield is pretty impressive, and hands-on-the-road AlpineRace style carves are easily done at moderate speeds.

If you're liking what you see in the newer generation of Luge/DH/Super-G wheels now out, maybe look at Carveboard's little brother, the CarveStik. You can slap most any wheel on those, and they're a LOT lighter trekking back uphill with.

Of course, a Landy Urban with Seismics and Speedvents would be pretty close to that...

 
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carveboard owners question
On 6/19/2007 peter ashley wrote in from United States  (75.69.nnn.nnn)

What level of grip do the carveboard rubber wheels deliver compared to urethane? I have a Loaded with 78a gumballs and estimate I can lean over about 30 degrees for .5-.7 grip before the wheels start buzzing and bleeding off speed. How does the carveboard tires do? Speed is comparable to urathane at 30 PSI?

 
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san francisco.
On 6/13/2007 mike wrote in from United States  (71.67.nnn.nnn)

I am moving to san francisco july 17th! I pretty sure I'm the only longboarder in northwest Ohio,Or at least feel like it. I will have a longboard when I arrive (new longboard larry 48" kicker) I love larrys boards they have that quality feel. I'm 21 years old and could teach you some longboard tricks. I love longboarding I believe its an addiction. I am going to move to the mission district and if you want to cruise email me. I am easy to get along with also love music Radiohead Flaming lips Modest Mouse Beastie Boys and Beck are just a few of my favs maybe that will help you. Wow I used I a lot in this paragraph... kellerkroger@hotmail.com

 
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Fibreflex
On 5/4/2007 Pre-School Rider wrote in from United States  (75.69.nnn.nnn)

Ronald, Hell, Yeah!!! Fibreflex is a Gordon + Smith deck, made of thin laminates of select hardwood and two layers of Bowtuff (same stuff they use in crossbows!), and that type of deck construction has been around since the early 70's. Some "fibreflex' boards made by other, liscenced companies may have alternate materials, and G+S used that name on other boards using Fiberglass/wood laminate construction recently, as Bowtuff was getting hard to source out, and, well, longboards realy don't Need a fiberglass That stiff.

Fave F.F. decks, IMHO, are Teamriders and Bowlriders, as with a slight kicktail and that snappy flex, most anything is possible! Attila's design, the Response, was made just a few years back, great Slalom deck easily one of the best distance/descent freecarvers made. A rarer one, also a few years old now, would be the "Leemo" G.S./Super-G deck, able to truly Go Fast while carving. Fibreflexes from the 70's/80's tend to be skinnier, flexier, too. Nonetheless, they're great boards for cruising on, as they Carve/Pump on most any ol' hill, as long as you've got loose, turny trucks and soft, sticky wheels on them!!

 
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edit
On 5/4/2007 Ronald wrote in from United States  (69.111.nnn.nnn)

edit on the question, i actualy want to now were i can find the same type of board(is it alright if i would post a picture of it?)

 
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