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| Street Luge (1208 Posts)
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Street Luge Info |
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Street Luge
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On 8/29/2007
Russ
wrote in from
United States
(67.181.nnn.nnn)
Hey guys ive been getting into street luge alot latly and i was wondering if anyone knows of a street luge league in nor call hit me back if you know anything.
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Woodie addenda
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On 8/29/2007 PSR
wrote in from
United States
(75.69.nnn.nnn)
Jordan, go with footpegs. If you don't want them, hey, cut them off later.
"Angle iron" reinforcement, um, maybe... Aluminum channel in an 'L' will twist, a lot. You'll have to glue it on, and I'd even recommend using small(#8 or 4mm) screws + T-nuts in strategic spots to bind the angle-bits onto the wood. 'C' channel is a good deal stiffer, but again, it can twist easily. The stuff you'd get from a hardware vendor is light-weight, un-heat-treated, basic mush. You'd want better metal, so look at industrial suppliers for ladder manufacturers. By the time you add thick-enough aluminum C channel, glueing, and t-nuts, you might as well put a layer of 3/16" Birch tech-ply + fiberglass to your seatpan. Did I mention that wood + metal don't really 'bond' well? I know I did mention urethane glue before, but now you'll need ski/snowboard flexible epoxy and you'd be in want of a good press/mold too. Glass it, add a layer of marine-quality or tech-ply thin veneer wood, and you'll be alright.
Truck placement: It is a personal choice, as would be bushing or wedge set-up. Leave room fore/aft for changes in overall wheelbase. Start with the front at mid-thigh, the rear just behind your head. 44" to 58" wheelbase is what I've had the best results with, but I've run shorter and longer, depending on sled build; steering required; stability wanted; and truck characteristics. You've got Options with you truck choice, so, don't sweat it until you've run it awhile. I did say to run it awhile?! Yeah, dialin' it in takes some roadwork, and then some re-working, followed by more road time...
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Pegged Option
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On 8/29/2007 Jordan
wrote in from
United States
(24.6.nnn.nnn)
Option D which I am really thinking about now... Its pegged... Its a boom luge... 3/4" 13ply plywood, 4" wide... Makes up the three boom sections... It will have angle iron for reinforcement... Each will bolt to the other threw the angle iron for extra strength... I think I could make a stronger, cooler and better riding pegged luge and for recreational riding it still seems to be up there with the pegless... Plus I will have many years to come to try out pegless and maybe it will be better! But I am thinking about going with my instinct of pegged...
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LONGER story
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On 8/27/2007 Jordan
wrote in from
United States
(24.6.nnn.nnn)
Here is what I posted on the 'fish, its same info but much more detailed... I am leaning towards type A or B, but type C is a good bit simpler and may be more comfortable...
Ok so I have 3 designs now... Help me pick! They also have there own variations... All are "pegless" but some have a full platform, others have a peg for the leg to rest on behind the knee.
What would you recommend?
Design "A"...
http://lugeforce.tripod.com/build/build.html ... Except for a few mods... The booms will be 3/4" plywood instead of 2x4's. The front and back booms will have angle iron attached for strength on the top outside edges, the bottom on the bottom outside edge.... I think this will be just as strong as stacked 3/4"s, if not better. A 3/4" or 1/2" plywood spacer between each will still be used for extra drop, 4 mounting bolts will be used and instead of going threw the wood layers only they will be in the four corners and go threw the top angle iron, threw the 3 layers of wood (front or back top boom, spacer and lower boom) and then the lower angle iron... Should be a really solid attachment and wont need gussets... Then it will simply have a shorter front boom and bike pegs will be just behind my knees for support...
Design "B"...
A 3/4" 13ply seat pan with 4" wide front and back booms made of 3/4" plywood, also with angle iron on top... Will most likely also have a spacer. Very similar to the hybrid luge design that was recently posted in here... And similar to many other rail designs (instead of a boom with a seatpan on top like design A, the seatpan is alone and is connected to the front and back boom, simpler... Not sure if its stronger)...
The front boom will still have the same sort of pegs as design A, only difference is that the seatpan is thick and has no boom underneath it... Bolts to attach the front and back booms will go threw the angle iron, threw the boom, the spacer, the seatpan and then will have large washers on the bottom...
Design "C"
See this link...
http://www.skateluge.com/images/strtlg02.jpg
Its the luge in the back...
Reason I like A and B is I think they will look cooler and possibly be lighter... Design A might be the lightest as the structure for the seatpan is the angle iron reinforced 4" wide 3/4" plywood, and then the seatpan is just 1/4" plywood (verses a full 3/4" plywood seatpan)...
With C I would do the same handles, A and B would be similar (not how luge force did it)...
So any thoughts???
Any of them stronger? Easier for truck mounting? More comfortable? Easier to mount crotch and head rests etc....
Thanks...
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Truck Placement
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On 8/27/2007 Jordan
wrote in from
United States
(24.6.nnn.nnn)
Ok so I need to design on whether I am doing a rail type luge but with a peg for my leg to rest on (thats type A)... A flat 3/4" seat pan but with 4" wide rail style front and backs also with a peg for my leg to rest on (type B) or a wide seatpan with wide front and backs... And the front is what my leg rests on... Type C...
Which would you guys go for and why? With the first two I am looking into ways to use just a single 3/4" plywood but to reinforce it with angle iron...
Also I have looked at a bunch of pictures and I cant seem to find a luge with the front truck in the "proper" position!!!
I have heard two guidlines, in between mid thigh and butt and another more specific one, when sitting up and looking inbetween your legs you should be able to see all 4 mounting holes for the trucks but your crotch should almost hide the back two...
Is that right? From pics most front trucks seem to be closer to the knees then to this!!!
Last, does anybody think 3/4" plywood with angle iron attached every 6"s will be any less strong then a double laminate of 3/4" plywood? If I go with a rail type I need to decide for the boom (I dont want 2x4's) if I want double stacked plywood or angle iron reinforced single plywood...
Ill probably spend the money for 13 ply either way... But it will still be only 4"s thick so I may need more structure...
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Design
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On 8/27/2007 Jordan
wrote in from
United States
(24.6.nnn.nnn)
Yeah I think I have the wheel and trucks issues sorted its just the luge design...
I am looking at a few designs...
Either I do a 3/4" plywood seatpan with aluminum rectangular tubing front and back, or 3/4" plywood truck mounts and leg rest...
Another idea is more like the luge force rail design that uses 2x4's, but instead of using 2x4's Ill use two 3/4" plywood 4" wide sheets laminated together...
Not sure if I will have a full leg rest or just some pegs that my legs rest on (like the hybrid metal/wood luge I posted a link to)...
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Less complicating...
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On 8/27/2007 PSR
wrote in from
United States
(75.69.nnn.nnn)
Jordan, better to sort this out here and now than after you've cut up some wood!
Sounds good, should be sweet!
The 4-wheels-to-an-axle setup was from Moe Racing. Last place I saw them on anything other than someone's sled was on Soul Longboard's site.
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Street Luge
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On 8/26/2007 Jordan
wrote in from
United States
(24.6.nnn.nnn)
Geez I keep making this over complicated...
So I think its down to to things now...
Sticking with 4 75a 83mm fly wheels... bear grizzly trucks and 10mm axles.
Either a wood luge with all 3/4" plywood parts or a hybrid like this one...
http://www_silverfishlongboarding_com/forum/showthread.php?t=49643
This thread has a neat luge its pegless, but instead of a full leg support it has pegs which your legs can rest on...
Neat design...
Also I can experiment with a design like this on my idea peg placement, maybe Ill even cut slots so the pegs are adjustable forwards and back? Might be neat...
I just have to make sure I can attach the metal components to the wood well... And do all the other work with the metal (checking on that with my dad...)...
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Double Wheels?
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On 8/25/2007 Jordan
wrote in from
United States
(24.6.nnn.nnn)
I saw somewhere somebody had 4 wheels per truck...
How is this done?
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One other option
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On 8/25/2007 Jordan
wrote in from
United States
(24.6.nnn.nnn)
Oh another idea I talked about that might be a good way to go if I am sticking with 4 wheels... What about 85mm speedvents? Big wheels, a bit more like a cross between the flywheel and the bigzig (offset like a bigzig but larger and with a hub like a flywheel)... I beleive they are available in 75a or 79a...
I could do either one (79a would probably be lots of grip, 75a would also) or maybe do a split duro? With standup usually they go more grip in the back because thats what tends to drift but most 6 wheel luges have the extra grip up front so I could do like 75a speedvents in front and 79a in back...?
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Wheels
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On 8/25/2007 Jordan
wrote in from
United States
(24.6.nnn.nnn)
Sweet I think Ill go with 10mm axles and 83mm 75a flys...
You talk about release... I used to do standup so I know having a good release when entering a drift is important... and even more important is how smooth it regrips! But do people drift luges? How is it done and when is it used... For me as I start Ill probably just be braking enough before corners to take them easily without pushing myself to hard... Seems like cornering is one of the more dangerous aspects of luging anyways and with only 4 wheels I'd hate to push my limit.
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wheels
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On 8/25/2007
wendtland
wrote in from
United States
(65.191.nnn.nnn)
stick with 83mm flys
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Axles/wheels
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On 8/25/2007 PSR
wrote in from
United States
(75.69.nnn.nnn)
Jordan I'd say go with 10mm axles. The downside is ths: Bearing availability. Ceramic or uber-high-tech 608 bearing will be faster, but the axles will bend at some point, you just won't know 'when'. 10mm axles will have a good bit of longer life, especially on rougher roads.
Which stick better? This isn't a 'clean cut' answer, but the question isn't totally fair, kinda falls under "it depends on"... Um, in slalom Zig-Zags are definately better. Flys are Faster, not that Big Zigs are 'slow'. But, Flys have a smoother 'release' when their grip is exceeded, and in 75A (or 78A), the Flys will come pretty close to 83A Zigs in overall grip. Ride quality will be pretty similar, slightly 'plusher' for the Zigs, as the smaller core puts more 'thane between you and the road. Now, go down to 80A Zigs, and the Flys will only have the speed advantage, and the Zigs will have a better grip and ride.
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Wheels...
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On 8/25/2007 Jordan
wrote in from
United States
(24.6.nnn.nnn)
So what do you guys honestly would grip better, 83a bigzigs or 75a 83mm flywheels?
Whichever one will handle corners better, I will go with... And Ill design the luge around them...
And if I stick with the bigzigs should I go with 8mm truck axles and my favorite bearings, rockets, or should I get 10mm (incase I use bigger wheels in the future or just to be safe) axles and the landyachtz bearings that come with them....
Thanks
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Woodie addenda
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On 8/22/2007 Pre-School Rider
wrote in from
United States
(75.69.nnn.nnn)
83A Zigs are fine for most roads. If on rougher pavement, go softer, both for grip, and ride comfort. Don't ride sub-80A on HOT (95*F+) days! They'll Goo.
For most riding, the narrow-tail would be fine, but knowing that North + East of you are some amazing hilly roads (that you'll grow into), I'd pick the wider rounded tail. It's better too in tight quarters, as your wheels can't easily get impinged upon by others. The seat pan, I've no comment, something you'll have to figure out as you build.
Urethane glue because, unlike 'white' wood glue, it's very moisture resistant, and unlike epoxy, dosen't need mixing nor is it likely to get brittle over a few years, and a little goes a long ways if you trowel/brush it on.
Yup, bushings come second, after get the ride height/alingment settled. Wedging may not even be needed, but if you do that, you've already got it figured right, just sort out the angles by what rides best.
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First Luge
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On 8/22/2007 Jordan
wrote in from
United States
(24.6.nnn.nnn)
So for a first luge, mostly recreational some racing would you recommend the narrow or wide back?
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Cool
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On 8/22/2007 Jordan
wrote in from
United States
(24.6.nnn.nnn)
So I'd be better off with 3/4" seat pan, 3/4" front and back and like 1/2" spacers?
Ill probably do that and just use wheel wells and the bigzigs (75mm zigs)... Will 83a zigs be grippy enough though???
And yeah Ill be sure to test it well, doubt I will test it in stages though Ill probably build the entire thing and then run it nice and easy at first...
Why urethane glue? Epoxy or wood glue not strong enough?
Bushings Ill be playing around with a lot but I am going to stick with the 57/45 degree angling (front and back) most likely... I have played around with wedging on my DH board and cant feel a ton of difference, I think the bushing choices front and back effect the ride a LOT more... I mostly just use less wedge in back so I can use harder bushings without reducing lean.
Thanks guys!
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the woodie
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On 8/22/2007 PSR
wrote in from
United States
(75.69.nnn.nnn)
Jordan, the 'stringer' concept is pretty sound, but may make final assembly a bit ugly just in lining up the bolt-thru holes. The sled won't 'perform' well, as you'll have little cornering leverage (no pan), and the sled itself will twist (this is one reason why the slab over the wheels is wide, the other is to keep your legs off the wheels). If you go this route, focus on wheel position, truck alignment, ride height, but don't go on very fast/tech hills, yet. If the sled feels fairly solid and is steerable, tracks straight, then go back, add the pan, and upper over-the-wheel pieces, handholds, seat padding, and check for the need of wheelwells (or not).
You'll notice in the pic of Lott's designs there are two rear set-ups, wide, + narrow. The wide is better for cornering, safer if you've got a ponytail sticking outa the back of yer helmet, and nicer to other racers in close quarters. The skinny tail will let just a hint of deck twist occur, which helps keep the sled in line on bumpier road surfaces (the rear steers just a little less), oh, and you'll soak your collar in the wet with the skinny tail...
After you've got it together, no wheel-rub, no handhold issues, with a comfy pan/seating, run it again, work up to speed in increments. If ANYTHING feels odd/loose/wobbly, stop, inspect the whole sled. Repeat this over three days or so of riding. Take notes (literally) of any probs. After you've 'settled in' and the sled is running o.k., then worry about improving the steering feel with bushings/wedges/wheel options. Your choice of wheels is fine for now (though I was serious about doing shakedown runs on smaller, +- 70mm wheels), Zigs and Flys are great wheels! Be patient enough to not 'just go' and bomb uber-fast (well, not for very long,anyway).
Lastly, once you've got this thing built, use urethane glue (clamp-set to dry) between any plys pieces that won't need to dissassemble for transport. The added glue, plus bolts, will make for a very solid sled.
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Wheels
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On 8/21/2007 Jordan
wrote in from
United States
(24.6.nnn.nnn)
If you guys think the stringer truck mount idea will work I may just go with the 83mm flys to start! I could even do a 1" stringer (2 1/2" sheets) and 1/4" top... For added strength, wood quality (two different pieces of wood) and more truck lift... Nice thing is the seat pan is always mounted underneath this so it wont make the board any higher... And the leg rest is always just getting higher so the board wont get any lower! (and bottom out)...
Seems like a good idea in theory, any problems I am not seeing with it?
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Thanks
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On 8/21/2007 Jordan
wrote in from
United States
(24.6.nnn.nnn)
I think Ill start with my 75mm bigzigs... 83a lemon bigzigs should work well no? I mean they slide a tiny but with a hard carve but for luging it should be a lot of grip...
Is it really going to take that much time to tweak everything I mean I dont see myself changing much... Front truck goes between butt and mid thigh, back will be adjusted for proper weight distribution. I have a 57 degree front truck and a 45 degree back...
What sort of things will I likely tweak and how will I know if its necessary or not?
Wheelwells sounds good also... Or maybe Ill do a wide like 1/4" piece of wood with a 3/4" by like 5-6" wide plywood stringer under it... Truck mounts on stringer, feet (and shoulders in the back) rest on the 1/4" piece of wood, and that gives you like 3/4" risers...
Could probably run the big wheels with that setup, but I think, unless you guys dont think they will be good, Ill still use the 75mm bigzigs for now.... I like them a lot, just hope they grip well...
Oh and should I go with 8mm or 10mm axles?
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Wood Luge build
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On 8/21/2007 PSR
wrote in from
United States
(75.69.nnn.nnn)
Jordan, instead of cutting large areas of wood away, do this instead; Build the sled, mount it up with trucks, then fit it with smaller wheels (like the 70mm Flashbacks/Grippens/ZigZags or maybe HotSpots/Avalons) to run it at first. This will let you feel out the truck placement, alignment, Ground clearance, and seating/handhold fit. These things are important to get the feel of, so expect to run the sled a few times while sorting this out.
Then, set the trucks very loose or with soft bushings and the big wheels; Don't 'ride' it, but do lean it hard both Left+Right at, say, walking speed. Note just where your wheels rub. Now, take the trucks off, and get a handheld belt sander (using the round end of the sander,,) to carve out the wheelwells just where you'll need them. This is good down thru maybe 4 plys, easy and quick, too.
If you need to go deeper than 4-5 plys of that cabinet-grade hardwood ply, then seriously consider a good wood-chiselling set to get deep enough. With a chisel, it's good practice the mark your cuts beforehand, and 'nibble' down on each cut with light blows of the hammer. Chip out the hole that's rough-cut, then use a drill-mounted rotary grindstone or (if you can find one) a round power-rasp to smooth it out.
The idea is not to have to compromise the decking strength, nor 'back-up' and dis-assemble the layers of wood (although making it in sections can make travelling easier). Anything you cut into will take away strength, and cutting wheel-wells before you've got it all together might leave you with axles where you don't really want them. Also, while getting 'low' is ideal, don't be shy about using thin risers (or wedges) between the decking and trucks. I've even used just 2 or 4 'faucet washers' to angle or slightly raise a truck on 6-wheelers to be certain all the wheels gripped evenly, or to tune the steering angles a nudge. Getting rid of wheelbite is a big concern, moreso than being at the 'optimum' lowered ride height. Watch too that your handholds don't get in the way of the wheels, nor put your hand under the sled's pan in cornering.
O.K., nuff stuff for now.
Let us know how it goes.
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Street Luge
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On 8/21/2007 Jordan
wrote in from
United States
(24.6.nnn.nnn)
Guys...
http://www.skateluge.com/images/strtlg02.jpg
Thats the luge I am going to make, with the back design of the luge in the back of the pick (wide tail end, not a skinny one like the front one)...
The wheels look like strikers...
So yeah 83a bigzigs ok? Good grip, and no bite?
I want a luge with crazy grip... No worries about slidin'... But I wont be pushing TO insanely.
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?
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On 8/21/2007 wendtland
wrote in from
United States
(65.191.nnn.nnn)
luge or buttboard?
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Wheel sizing
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On 8/21/2007 Jordan
wrote in from
United States
(24.6.nnn.nnn)
Yeah the Rogers pegless is awesome but I am making a wood luge ;)...
So yeah I was going to use 83mm wheels but they are not looking like they will fit (wheel bite)... because its basically a flat skateboard deck.... Not even a little concave to give the wheels more room... One idea would be cut outs all the way threw the deck where the wheels go, and then like some plastic (clear) recessed lexon or something, so you can see the wheels and they can go slightly into the board to prevent bite...
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wheels
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On 8/21/2007 wendtland
wrote in from
United States
(65.191.nnn.nnn)
centerset wheels you can get more life out of them. you can rotate.
the gumball machine was designed for 76mm wheels. my personal favorite is the rogers brothers peggless
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