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| Pre-1980 Vintage Gear (6027 Posts)
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laminate decks
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On 9/10/2002 buddy
wrote in from
(65.45.nnn.nnn)
Rocket, i believe was the first production laminate board.
perfected by larry balma (tracker trucks) charlie watson (watson laminates) and
and given to G&S for mass production. anyone want to hear more about this? I have the inside scoop.
Buddy
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G&S Bowlrider vs. Weber Woody
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On 9/9/2002
GBJ
wrote in from
(68.49.nnn.nnn)
Incidentally, Brady, the Weber Woody was being advertised in Skateboarder well before the G&S Bowlrider. Granted, going by the advertisements found in one particular magazine doesn't constitute hard fact, but if the G&S Bowlrider was introduced in early-'76, why then was it still not yet being advertised in the largest, most popular magazine in the industry by December of '76? Are you working on recollection, or do you have an alternate source? You're off by a year in my sources. The first G&S Bowlrider ad in Skateboarder was in April, '77. In fact, I also finally found the ArcheryFlex all the way back in Dec. '76, which was also earlier in the all-wood laminated board market than everything but the Weber.
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Weber Woody
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On 9/9/2002
GBJ
wrote in from
(209.48.nnn.nnn)
The date on the oldest ad I found (although I was not looking for the oldest Weber ad I could find, I was just working on eliminating possibilities) that made specific reference to the laminations in the Woody was Skateboarder, Oct. '76. There are definitely older Weber ads, and the photos of the Woody make it look like it was a laminated board all the way back, but I went with the issue that actually specified the lamination as a feature of the board.
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Woody!
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On 9/9/2002 Tim
wrote in from
(216.181.nnn.nnn)
Anybody got a woody? He he he...
I certainly don't remember them having any pro riders. What was the date on that ad?
So here's one that's similar to one you guys posed a page or two back. Who made the first 10 inch or wider pig? Was it ever answered, or was that even the question? If you're tired of my questions just don't reply. ;)
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benjyboard lollypops
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On 9/9/2002
gavin
wrote in from
(195.194.nnn.nnn)
poss a UK based question.... am i dreaming it, or did benjyboard used to do a 'lollypop' deck? distantly remember a kid and his brother turning up at the local carpark (you know the classic 70's scene, deserted after shopping hours and an 8 x 4 'borrowed' from the local builders merchants propped against a fence for a ramp) with these boards they reckoned were bb lollypops.
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weber
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On 9/8/2002 herbn
wrote in from
(205.188.nnn.nnn)
and to think i leafed right past a weber ad,only noticing the wheels,those three "ply" sidecut kicktails,double lip wheels,and axle width extenders. Oh well two out of three:)
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The Weber Woody was first
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On 9/8/2002
GBJ
wrote in from
(68.49.nnn.nnn)
Well, Tim, apparently you didn't ask the question that Herbn thinks you should've. Take it back.
Actually, the answer to the question you DID ask (as noted to the left) is the Weber Woody. To the best of my ability to determine, while everyone else was still marketing solidwood or mixed material laminates, Weber was advertising its' Woody as 3 cross-grain, horizontally laminated, layers of carefully selected hardwoods.
Come to think of it, "First all-wood Laminated Board" is one of the distinctions about Weber that my old skate buddy would routinely mention.
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Splitting hairs again...
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On 9/8/2002 Tim
wrote in from
(63.215.nnn.nnn)
You guys are right, but if I didn't limit this to wood plys the answer would have been obvious and there'd be no point in asking. I think G&S was probably the best/most innovative company from the 60s to the early 70s. Hell, I even like some of their late 70s and early 80s stuff, although most of the graphics totally sucked. So I'm still eliminating stringers and fiberglass laminates from this discussion. Anybody come up with any solid answers?
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Fibreflex plys
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On 9/8/2002
Brady
wrote in from
(66.21.nnn.nnn)
If I recall correctly, the first Bowlrider model came out in early 76. Some were drilled with the 3 hole truck pattern or 4 hole small Bennet pattern. These were a strech from all the previous Fibreflexs in that they had very little flex. Much lighter than the common solid oak decks of `76.
While not the "wood laminates only first" of the early urethane era,,,,but surely the idea that set the stage for them.
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fiberflexs,,ect
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On 9/8/2002 herbn
wrote in from
(64.12.nnn.nnn)
plys are plys,fiberglass is a ply, aluminum is ply (quicksilvers were later though). I can see eliminating boards glued together from strips,the key criteria is if the board is shaped while pressing. By the way on the vintage wheel question,i remembered the obvious distinction between Cadilacs and Roadriders, the bearings.I have just broozed my quality copy of apri 76 skateboarder and there are several ads with wheels that sport the new sealed bearings,powerpaw,banzai,weber,even an early Bennett Aligator wheel,with either sealed or a onepiece loose bearing race,at the time Cadilac stuck to their loose bearing guns, evidently someone at cadilac though the 608 bearing was just a passing fad. Until the DK38/51 cadilac didn't have a sealed bearing wheel. I don't think there was a conspiracy to keep the 1965 Kryptonic out of the market, i think it wasn't the same wheel they came back with in 77 or 78, i think it probabely sucked for skateboarding and that's why they continued to be a forklift wheel company(or whatever) for 10 years before finding new urithane formulas to enter the second coming of the skateboard market,somebody at the original company was into skating, and while the first ad(i saw it here a while back)showed only a 85a formula,and could have been a rehash of the 1965 wheel(which i've never seen)but they then quickly ungraded and diversified their formulas. The much posted about red(75a),green(85a),blue(80a),yellow(75a),orange( 85a), formula's the last two were admitedly slower and grippier formulas for added control on steeper and slippery surfaces. This doesn't sound like a company that's just in the skateboard market because it's big again.
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Compass Skateboards
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On 9/8/2002
kmg
wrote in from
(24.197.nnn.nnn)
Anybody know anything about Compass Skateboards? I remember seeing one around 1975. I think it was fibreglass, and it had a ribbed pattern formed into the riding surface of the deck to provide grip.
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Free Former?
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On 9/8/2002 Henry J
wrote in from
(12.148.nnn.nnn)
A new kid at school rides around on an older board called a Free Former. I've heard of free formers before but I'm curious as to how these boards preformed. It had a cool green dragon graphic on the bottom. I couldn't tell what the trucks and wheels were. Can anyone give me the 411?
Henry
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Keep Guessing
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On 9/8/2002
GBJ
wrote in from
(68.49.nnn.nnn)
I am going out to dinner at my brother's place, when I return I will quickly research both the Harbour (nice looking boards) and the Haut Lamiflex, but I think we'll find that they both come after the Warp2 and Logan Dura-Lites. If, by the time I've returned and done that quick search, nobody has guessed the one that I think is correct, I'll give up the answer.
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Could it be...
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On 9/8/2002 Tim
wrote in from
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Haut?
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Early laminated decks
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On 9/8/2002 PSR
wrote in from
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When did Harbour start making their 7-ply boards? I 'think' I recall seeing them in '76 in a San Francisco skateshop,but I'm not too sure about whether it was '76 or '77.
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First all-wood laminates
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On 9/8/2002 GBJ
wrote in from
(68.49.nnn.nnn)
...and for those of you who weren't around during that era, October '76 is around the time of the earliest John Smythe (Craig Stecyk) Dogtown articles in Skateboarder.
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ArcheryFlex
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On 9/8/2002
GBJ
wrote in from
(68.49.nnn.nnn)
Ok, I just want to say that it is entirely possible that the Archeryflex board is a correct guess. I'm having a hard time putting my hand on one of the ArcheryFlex ads, but my recollection, like Alan's, is that ArcheryFlex was pretty early. Now, having said that, I'm now going to throw that one away. In my opinion, the rail-to-rail wheel humps were an ill-conceived, poorly considered feature that rendered the board nearly unrideable and an ankle-tweaker at that. Little more than a novelty, I'll set that one aside, while telling you that I've now spotted ads for my candidate seven months further back, into the October, '76 Skateboarder. Anyone got it yet? I'll tell you this much, anyone who was actually around in that era is going to have a big, "No s--t!?!" reaction, and be angry with themselves for missing it.
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Lamentations of the past...
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On 9/8/2002
psYch0Lloyd
wrote in from
(24.148.nnn.nnn)
Thank you for setting me straight. I'm not too surprised that my guesses were incorrect. Going only from my limited exposure here in Chicago, and not having the resources to research the possibilities, could only post from experience.
The Archery Flex was a laminated wood skateboard shaped in such a way that wheel wells were created by bending the deck at points the wheels would make contact with the board. These wheel wells ran all the way across the deck as the board went from kicktail to wheel well dipping down again for the main section between the wheels before it reached the next hump (which formed the other wheel wells) then back down again and leveling off for the nose. The problem w/this design is that you had these humps that at points where you would want to set you feet. You then would be relegated to putting your feet at 90° angles or they would be in odd positions while you ride (toe lifted and heel lowered). I never found it comfortable to ride and wound up chopping it up for use as mini-deck. Sure wish I saved it now but it would have been nothing more than a wall hanger, I'm afraid.
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Fibreglass and wood
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On 9/8/2002
GBJ
wrote in from
(68.49.nnn.nnn)
...and Herbn, just so you recall, the original question was, "Who made the first laminated multi-ply wood (not stringer or fiberglass and wood) construction board, and what was it called?" This means we're not considering Fibreflexes and the like.
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Laminates guesses...
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On 9/8/2002
GBJ
wrote in from
(68.49.nnn.nnn)
I will have a very specific look at Rockit (yes, Russ Gosnell rode for Rockit) and Archeryflex, but to the best of my knowledge the Rockit does not pre-date the one I found. ArcheryFlex may, but for now I'm saying, nope and nope to your guesses.
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laminates
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On 9/8/2002 herbn
wrote in from
(152.163.nnn.nnn)
the warp 2 was the first "successful" laminate, what sucked about the archeryflex(pSychoLloyd)? i always wanted one too.I think fiberflexes were 3 plys of wood with glass and they were available in kicktails,and definitely not a piece of plywood cut into the shape of a skateboard, the 60's fiberflexs didn't have kicktails but they were'nt just glassed plywood either.
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Rockit
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On 9/8/2002 msk
wrote in from
(172.163.nnn.nnn)
psYch0Lloyd wrote:
"...Rockit laminated skateboard deck. The kicktail was more of a foot-hook on these decks because they were kind of a radius that almost reached 3 o'clock. No pros I knew of rode for these guys and no models were atributed to anyone either."
My memory's a bit fuzzy here, but didn't Russ Gosnell ride for Rockit? If I recall correctly, he was featured quite a bit in the earliest issues of Wild World of Skateboarding, riding those boards. I also seem to recall they ran a how-to article on slalom by him, advocating riding in a crouched position, for a lower center of gravity (aka "like a Porsche"). Or maybe my neurons are just misfiring...
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Laminations of the past...
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On 9/7/2002
psYch0Lloyd
wrote in from
(24.148.nnn.nnn)
Man, why do I sound so negative on that post?
My favorite laminated deck of all time is...
...Chris Strople's deck which was made by Caster. That deck had a couple of layers of glass separated by wood in its lamination.
Wow! Another innovative manufacturer that really shines is Winterstick. Demetrje Milovich came up with a wide wood glass laminated deck that had a p-tex bottom. I've been riding his snowboards since '78.
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Laminations, and the winner is...
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On 9/7/2002
psYch0Lloyd
wrote in from
(24.148.nnn.nnn)
Who is...
...Tracker, who made the Rockit laminated skateboard deck. The kicktail was more of a foot-hook on these decks because they were kind of a radius that almost reached 3 o'clock. No pros I knew of rode for these guys and no models were atributed to anyone either.
When I first read Tim's question though, I thought of Maharaja but I have a feeling you aren't talking about them. My belief is that Maja's decks superceded everyone elses when it came to laminated decks as they had 3 layers with the top-most layer having that parkay floor look and finish. I can't remember who but some pros did endorse this product I can almost see their faces through the smoky haze of time...
One of my dream boards (until I got one) was the Archery Flex deck which had the most shape of any deck to date before it and it was definitely a laminate. Too bad it sucked.
For all it's worth I could be totally wrong here because Nash made a lot of cheap cookie cutter cut-outs and I wouldn't doubt that one of these would have been a laminated deck.
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Laminations, and the winner is...
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On 9/7/2002
GBJ
wrote in from
(68.49.nnn.nnn)
Let me begin by acknowledging that while some of the information I share here comes from direct recollection, most comes from quick, deductive passes through a "collection" of old skateboard magazines (mostly Skateboarder, with some Wild World of Skateboarding offering some balance)that is in much the same condition as Tim describes his. I acknowledge that relying primarily on Skateboarder can be sketchy, as it clearly represents only one point of view of what was going on. For equipment history questions I rely primarily on advertisements, but intentionally keep my nose in the photos to see who is riding what, since some of the photo coverage could run ahead of the advertisements, and who knows who was prototyping what? To that end, in the July, 1977 issue of Skateboarder I noticed both Stacy Peralta and Bob Biniak both seem to riding wood that does not seem as beefy as the old, thicker solid wood boards, but the photos are not conclusive. For those of you who recall or otherwise know the history, these two riders directly associate with the two guesses made earlier, with Stacy eventually releasing the laminated Warp 2, and Biniak releasing one of the first Logan Dura-Lite models. Notably, shots of the Logans and other Logan team members all seem to include the older, thicker boards. Looking at the ads in that issue, both Logan and G&S were still advertising solidwood boards, but there were two ads for laminated (not just plywood) decks. Once I saw the first, to no great surprise, I thought I'd found the answer. Aha! Leave it up to Novak and crew again, this time in the form of... Santa Cruz. No surprise. (forehead slap) That makes sense. There was another ad though... three crossgrained horizontal laminations of carefully selected hardwoods. (Nobody's gonna guess this one...)
So I've got two now, in print advertisements in the summer of '77. I start dialing further back in the chronological order of my and come to April, '77. I needed to eliminate one or the other of these two candidates for this particular distinction, and I had a strong feeling I knew which one was gonna go. Santa Cruz. In April '77, Santa Cruz is advertising their composite laminates and "hardwood" boards. No mention of wood laminates, as there clearly was three months later.
I have a very good friend, killer skater, natural athlete, skateboard kid in the 70s... he's been talking about this other company as long as I've known him. Somehow, back in the 70s, this innovator of laminated board's advertising campaign bounced off me completely. As an adult, I am very clear that I dismissed them outright, and have no idea why. The only reason I can imagine I would have possibly completely overlooked them was because (at this time) I can recall no professional skateboarders that ever rode their boards, and this particular ad has no photos of anyone skating, just product shot and price list. Before I simply give it up... anyone want to run dive in the April '77 issue, or otherwise make a guess? I can tell you this... without the issue, or SOME vintage-'77 issue of Skateboarder, you're not gonna guess it.
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